Localism Getting a Facelift?

Danilo –

Last year I closed several transactions as a result of AR posts, which show up on Localism. When I started my outside blog – I posted less and less to AR. Now, I only post my listings to AR/Localism.

I still have had a few listings this year from last years Localism posts. I know, because the articles which brought the clients were from AR. One client told me she searched for “The best agent in Avon Indiana” and since I was at the top for that city – I was first in her search.

Even today – if you search Avon Indiana Neighborhoods, the first four returns are Localism posts I posted last year. Avon Indiana (insert subdivision) will bring at least 2-3 of the top ten.

I believe there is Google power in AR/Localism posts about community and neighborhoods, but, ultimately – I want my blog to be #1 for those terms. Realizing the Google power, should I duplicate my posts at Localism, therefore, compete with my outside blog?

Just something I wonder about!

According to the referring links to both my web site and my WP blog (per stat counter), I do get some traffic coming from the AR domain, but nothing from the Localism domain address. When I started my WP blog, I focused on it because I didn’t want to “compete” with myself (as Teresa B said was a no-no). As a result, in the year my WP blog has been up, it just keeps getting stronger for generating actual business.

With the snippets that the AR Gods have been giving, it seems they want something other than real estate articles, and instead want – as one Rainer put it – the Chamber of Commerce type of articles. We’ll just have to wait and see what the rules are when it goes live. But my WP blog is and will continue to be my main focus because I can do so much more with it to target my intended audiance.

The problem with Localism 1.0 was that every agent wanted to be at the top so many spammed or gamed the system. Consumers want quality content, even if its free. The only way to feature quality is to have an anonymous editor who isn’t part of the RE.net clique, otherwise you get the same people being featured over and over (even when they write poorly) which discourages newcomers from participating. I’ll be interested to see how AR approaches that problem. Their daily newsletter hasn’t impressed me. Too many of the articles or videos have been weak. It’s not “must read” material.

Who is the competition? Teresa Boardman and other local bloggers who don’t have to deal with the politics of spreading the wealth. Sure, Teresa still features herself (so to speak) when she has an off day, but any group would be hard pressed to compete with her individual consistency. For Localism to become the ultimate local real estate portal, AR would have to find a Teresa in every community. At the moment, those writers aren’t there, and those who are close struggle to be heard over the din of the shameless self promoters who won’t take the time to learn how to write for anyone but themselves.

It’s going to be an uphill battle, particularly since ActiveRain doesn’t generate substantial revenue.

@BB..you wrote..”Localism is getting ready to be HUGE!!!”…….for whom? Why do you say so?

For those who already rank high in google for short and long tail are you implying that those on AR who post on Localism will over take them? No way..not a chance. So who will it be HUGE for?

Personally, I think it has potential if used correctly by the community but as with everything… GIGO. Keep in mind that out of the gate there is traction from the AR side.

If users try to post to add value to readers with useful local articles or news as it is designed to be instead of spamming it with self serving promotional posts (as noted above)… it could help your overall online efforts. Spending 10 minutes a week to post can do nothing but help your main online presence where you spend the majority of time and effort. As with everything online being early can have significant benefits if it gets traction with little cost other than time and at this point only time will tell.

Frank: As always, your ever optimistic and positive outlook shines the way!

Bob (whoever you are): What really ‘sucks’ is people who dump critical comments, but don’t have the backbone to reveal who they are. Go back to surfing!

Look, AR is providing a FREE service for agents. What they do with it, is up to them. Some people are finding success with it’s usage. Are all 80,000 plus? No, but since only about 20 percent of licensees are making over poverty level doing real estate, can we really say AR (or any other service) is a failure because not EVERY agent is making a living off of it?

I’ve never been a fan of the points system, but it’s there and if agents abuse it, than well…. we’ll just put that on the list of everything else people abuse.

My skepticism comes from distrust of HV and not having a clue (till now) about how they interacted with AR. If it’s a marketing investment than I am all about someone benefiting from HV’s money!

The fact that they don’t have access to the information is the important issue.

… I can’t believe I didn’t get any AR points for the “crabby” reference… I guess since I don’t list and sell it just don’t matter…. 🙂

Rich, are you here as Rich Jacobson or ActiveRich, or are those two entities now inseparable? I don’t mind a little stakeholder sarcasm aimed at me, but your “Go back to surfing!” slap at Bob Wilson, basically trying to bully him off someone else’s forum on behalf of your employer, seems totally out of line.

Matthew, Localism is a collective concept. Individual members get good Google juice from their AR blogs. There is nothing inherent in the platform to prevent members from aiming their posts at consumers rather than peers, with or without Localism. The potential value of Localism is as a magnet for generating even more local consumer traffic by becoming a destination for people who want to browse a local real estate (and lifestyle) information portal rather than searching for a specific subject.

Look at AgentGenius. Any post here generates its own Google juice, but it also draws additional readers because AgentGenius is a destination. I end up reading posts here that I never would have searched for on Google. That drawing power is the brass ring Localism and more than a dozen other ventures are trying to grab. Once you become a consumer destination, you can start to monitize that traffic, either by selling ads to affiliate service providers or by charging a nominal fee for membership.

The challenge is developing compelling quality in enough markets so that you generate the sort of buzz that propelled brands like YouTube or MySpace. I’ve told Rich and others at AR that I’m rooting for them to put the 1-800-DENTIST sites (fugazi real estate sites with canned local content that exist solely to generate and resell leads) out of business. To do that you need great local content generators in lots of markets with something in place to weed out the background noise.

Localism 1.0 tried a self-ranking merit system. Gaming (multiple accounts to vote for yourself, deals with friends to vote for each other) destroyed that system, so AR tried some sort of moderator ranking system. The result was that the market updates and local events were no longer displayed in chronological order. When consumers see market updates from last year or Easter Egg hunt notices around Halloween, they abandon the site. That flight will occur regardless of anyone’s optimism.

I’ll be watching the new launch with interest. If it works, it puts money in my pocket because local agents will want to learn how they can participate, so if I was strictly thinking about my wallet, I’d be waving the pom-poms. For better or worse, I think a sober assessment of the challenge is more useful to everyone. I leave the cheerleading to others.

Like most of the more internet savvy readers of this blog, I use AR on a casual basis, cutting and pasting some of my articles (I use partial posts with a link to my outside website), but never get any leads. Sadly it’s about the closest thing to getting real local information from a national site, however that being said it has a HUGE slant on the information. No one knows the local areas like local real estate agents, but no one also knows self-promotion without any shred of dignity like real estate agents. I wouldn’t post 1/10 of the crap I see on Localism on my blog, because I try to

The new design looks good and AR does have some strong SEO power, but since the quality data comes mostly from outside bloggers, who presumably know to post to their site first and then post to AR, their articles will be first. My broker and I are still the only people who have ever posted about our local town so our Localism page looks like a “best of” congregate for our local posts and I contributed all the photos, so my name is pretty much everywhere.

I think the people that will benefit the most are those that haven’t made the jump to an outside blog but can narrow their focus and actually write well about their local area. You might be able to convince a few people that you are a professional and get their business, but I’d rather spend a few more buck and get my own site and play with the big boys.

May I quietly and humbly suggest that Bob’s point that we as REALTORS should consider whether this is or will be an attempt to create the lead generation capacity of yet ANOTHER third party and as such we should be careful of feeding the hand that will eventually bite us?

Has that not happened with Trulia? May that not again happen here? We donate our content in terms of both listings and “answers” and then have a perplexed look on our face when the Third party goes for search engine dominance and (eventually) charges us for that presence…

Do you REALLY own the neighborhood or are you renting. With no rent control… Do you know who owns this rental unit? even if you TOTALLY trust them can they not sell out?

IMHO these are things to think about.

best;

Eric

Paula – Congrats on your success with AR and Localism. “If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it”, right? Wonder if you’re doing something differently than others who are not having success with it, if it’s the area you’re in, etc.

Broker Bryant – I checked out the new site this morning and it’s definitely an improvement. But the guage is going to be in its benefit to consumers and agents. Wonder how well the “sponsor a community” program will work once it’s launched on the 31st.

I tend to agree with Daniel in his statement (2 comments above). It doesn’t matter whether you really are or are not the community guru – just fork out some dough and you’ll be perceived as one (until the client finds out otherwise and then curses Localism’s name).

Yes Matt, the service on AR and Localism is free and that gives them the right to do what they want. But they let the community run too rampant and without ANY rules, which is back-firing. Agents are posting listings and self-promotion posts, both of which consumers and other agents are not here to read about. I would love to speak with a buyer or buyer’s agent that bought or sold a listing because they saw it on AR or Localism.

The potential for AR and Localism to own hyper-local real estate traffic and provide a wealth of information to consumers across America is huge…if they were to execute correctly.

I still don’t care much for your criticism, but to each their own. I am curious as to your statement that Localism is primarily going to serve HV’s lead generation. What’s your basis for this comment? Do you have some ‘inside’ scoop that the rest of us are not privy to?

No surprise that you don’t like criticism. As for the statement, what I said was “My guess is this is primarily going to serve HV’s lead generation” and would be considered speculation by most people.

HV invested some decent coin in AR. Most investments of that sort include certain benchmark goals, and having spoken with an HV investor, I believe that not everyone is happy with the ROI. Localism is the only obvious revenue stream left.

In the sport of surfing, localism is the negative part of the culture. It’s basically territorialism that results in surfers protecting their surf break from outsiders, frequently by doing stupid and illegal things.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surf_culture#Localism

Is it bad luck that I stumbled onto (fairly obvious) plagiarism almost immediately or is this problem as common on Localism 2.0 as it has been on ActiveRain?

Localism will only feed the plagiarism problem that exists with AR.

Eric – “Has that not happened with Trulia? May that not again happen here? We donate our content in terms of both listings and “answers” and then have a perplexed look on our face when the Third party goes for search engine dominance and (eventually) charges us for that presence…”

Very true statement – so the question becomes – why don’t agents create and post to their own blogs? Shouldn’t we engage the readers of our blogs?

Are there many comments posted by AR or Localism visitors by the way? Or is it agents talking to each other to make the content?

The leads I have gotten from AR (none from Localism) were because of my bio and not the blog postings.

Bob: I can handle genuine constructive criticism quite well, thank you very much. It’s baseless slams that I have no merit with me. To say that Localism ‘sucks’ when it’s just been released is unfair and a tad bit premature, don’t you think? Wouldn’t it be more fair to give it some time to develop before passing such harsh judgment? Fortunately, not every one surfs…

Rich, that is my unvarnished opinion and it is “based” on what localism has been. What it will be remains to be seen.

Question: Say someone sponsors a community, then later decides to not renew. What happens to their content? Who owns it?

Another Localism question Rich – do you plan on putting up the TOS for this new brand of localism prior to the “land rush”, or is the plan to just take people’s money and then let them know the fine print details?

Bob: We plan to make the value proposition, expectations/requirements very obvious before ‘taking’ people’s money.

In regards to your earlier question, blog content on AR has always been, and will always be, the property of the original author. Whenever a member chooses to leave AR, they can remove their blog archive, and take their content with them.

In regards to the new Localism, when you sponsor a neighborhood/community, you are afforded a static section that you provide content for. If you decide not to renew your sponsorship, that information will become replaced by whoever sponsors the neighborhood/community next. Any articles/content that you contributed to Localism thru AR will remain intact, and will continue to show up in the community, or on your blog profile.

Well said, Frank. For many, creating user generated content for others isn’t a big deal because you are not competing with it. Obviously, the real estate space is different.

Nah Rich, they are just reacting to your blatant sales pitch.

So many of the commenters here don’t see the value of localism, but I feel just the opposite. Y’all talk about competing with yourself, there is no way your independent blog is going to hold all top 10 spots on Google. My little hyper local blog does well and has been consistently in the top 10 of Google for my keywords for a long time now. I don’t want all ten spots but I want several of them, because I want a consumer to see that I participate heavily in many real estate arenas and different consumer are drawn to different types of sites, IMHO.

So I do see the value in contributing my content to multiple sites and we are all entitled to our opinion on that. I guess that is my problem, I’ve been a kool aid drinker 🙂 since the day I stumbled across AR – maybe I should have called myself a cheerleader instead, but at 3am Eastern, it just poured out that way.

What I am still looking for is a definition of communities or neighborhoods or however AR is planning on charging for them. And I don’t want to see it at 1 minute before midnight on 7/31/2008. Releasing that bit of the algorithim could have cut down on some of the bitterness from those of us who see the value and have contributed.

Bob: I am just really curious as to what I or ActiveRain has ever done to cause you to be so caustic and bitter? Did we take your toys away as a child? We aren’t the Anti-Christ.

Frank: We’re like ships passing in the night. Know that I do always value your opinions and input. I have found your comments in the past extremely insightful and helpful to our process.

Michelle: We will make all the details very plain and obvious. Again, I would simply reserve your judgments until we’ve had adequate time to unroll and populate everything.

Bob: For someone who has had such a cursory experience and minimal level of involvement on our platform, I don’t think you’re necessarily qualified to predict what AR or Localism will become. I will grant you your ‘speculations.’ I haven’t attempted to make this personal, Bob. You are entitled to your opinions. Our members don’t have to pay to play. The overwhelming majority of the network is still available at no charge. Let’s agree to have this same discussion 6 months from now, and compare notes.

Hi Bob, Goodness it’s been a busy day. In reply to one of your comments to Rich I noticed you made this statement:

“…having provided tons of content to Localism since its inception, now find themselves having to pay to play.”

That is actually not right. We chose a revenue model where a user can choose to “pay to play” or they can continue to post to Localism like they always have done for free. In fact most of the content (over 95%) on the new Localism site is free for members to post to.

The pay option is just another option for people who would rather invest $’s into Localism than time.

It takes all kinds to make the world go round.

@ Bob….”let me know if you would like to know why your AR county and city pages are for the most part toast in Google”

I would like to know..if not in an open forum..please email me. Very interested in knowing this

“Every form of refuge has its price..”
Lying eyes–The Eagles

Can you explain to us Rich, where the return is going to come from for the capital that HV invested and how that will play out? My healthy skepticism on this comes from past experience with VC investors.

If it was truly just a “They advertise on the site, but that’s about it.” sort of a deal..as you claim…..then why did they buy a piece of the company? If I want to advertise on a local TV station, I don’t go down and buy a 10% or 20% or 30% stake in it. I just buy off of the rate card. HV did NOT buy off the rate card. They INVESTED in a STAKE in the company, no?

Do you see why some of us, (myself included) are having a difficult time swallowing this Rich?

Jonathon, please explain to me how this isnt going to be pay to play at the same time you are trying to create a feeding frenzy with your land rush concept? If I buy up $700 worth of San Diego County, including all of North County, how do the Jeff Dowlers and Roberta Murphys still contribute to their preferred areas?

As I see it, if they can, then why pay? If they can’t, then how is this not pay to play?

Rich, if I’m wrong or my criticism is unfounded, I’ll be the first to man up. In the meantime, why not address the issues or questions being raised instead of trying to discredit me because I won’t sit around your campfire and sing Kum ba ya with you?

@Barry – that info may require an investment on your part 😉

Rich, I’m happy to help. I felt bad when I saw the “Lyin’ Eyes” lyric dropped on you. Ouch!

Invite David from Zillow, too. It’s a small, but growing fraternity.

“It would sure do me good, to do you good. Let me help!” – Billy Swan, “I Can Help”

“Can you explain to us Rich, where the return is going to come from for the capital that HV invested and how that will play out?”

ActiveRain has an amazing future ahead of it. Our plan is to make lots of profit and give HV a fantastic return on their investment.

(And they do not have access to our member’s email addresses. They buy advertising on our website and in our newsletter through our sales guy Jerry, just like all of the other businesses do.)

@ Frank-

You cracked me up with that. Honestly Frank (leaving aside the Eagles humor–what can I say. I am a fan,) do you think my question about HV investing in Active Rain was unfair? I don’t think so and I would like think it deserves an answer. Is it unfair to ask these questions of a “partner” before spending hours generating content for them?

Who owns you? How much revenue do you HAVE to generate to pay them back? What might that cause you to decide? Where are you getting your traffic from? Where do you intend to get traffic from? What is the likelihood you will become a competitor? Are these unfair questions? (seriously…)

@Rich- Please take Frank up on the advice to talk to David G. He will tell you that I have been more than friendly and fair with him…of course he has never referred to me or friends as “the lynch mob” either…grin. (different post) (He has sent me several emails at different times and we have agreed on some and disagreed agreeably on others) Don’t expect me to change my principles or suddenly like the product you are offering when you are a competitor with the REALTOR (hint: No-following user generated content qualifies), then I start getting upset….but I will wait and see what the post BETA version looks like.

Best to both of you.

Eric

Eric, I thought your questions were fair and I liked your observations regarding advertising versus investing. As for the lyric, it made Rich sound like he had made some sort of moral compromise to survive the downturn. Let me suggest an alternative lyric:

“And all this science I don’t understand. It’s just my job five days a week” – Elton John

Web 2.0 titles like “Community Builder” and “Social Media Guru” have created confusion. These folks are simply employees doing a job on behalf of their employers. We should never lose sight of that.

Well, if Barry’s doing it then I’m more confident than ever in my decision to sit this one out. 🙂

We understand where this thing is headed…

Yeah, toss in listings and you’ve got Zillow REALTOR Voices 3.0, the new national social MLS network for bloggers!

No, I don’t have “the scoop”, but when a member asks “what happens to our listings” and the response is “wait and see”, it’s pretty easy to connect the dots. Basically all of the players are attempting to copy each other, a strategy which is being facilitated by low barriers to entry on the technical side.

Who will ultimately prevail and why? Well, when Overstock.com swings open their doors with 2.5 million listings, it obviously isn’t about the listings anymore. It isn’t about the technology either. Everybody is developing heat maps, Zestimators (REALTOR.com provides 18 months of mostly useless comps), and community based consumer communication portals.

The only area still open to competition, the one commodity that can’t be sublicensed or copied is… you. Your knowledge of the neighborhood, the industry, and the buying and selling process is the only competitive advantage still on the table.

Choose wisely.

@Bob@Frank – Agreed – so why should we leave our knowledge on other sites who compete with us.

Bob, Teresa Boardman made some great comments here about ActiveRain, SEO, and blogging.

https://agentgenius.com/?p=1544#comment-7058

The line that sticks with me is “I also find that everything I write on my own blog is featured.”

Fortunately ActiveRich has connected the dots for those who do not see the potential tie in.

Imagine if you’ve been farming a particular development. You may even live there, and be active in the Homeowners Association. What better way to be the chief authority of that development than to create a community on Localism for that specific development. Send out a mailer and solicit involvment on the site for all the residents. Have it become the local community bulletin board to share upcoming events, advertise garage sales, school events, whatever. And guess what? There you are right in the middle of it all!..

What remains to be explained is why I wouldn’t apply the same model using Blogger to eliminate both the sponsorship fee and competing agents. Pay money to sponsor a blog that I have to share with competing agents or create a free blog with no competing agents?

Hmmm… I think we’re gonna need another batch of Kool Aid.

Dan, we should be like Barry and think outside the box. I live in Willow Glen, a neighborhood in San Jose. Let’s say I plonk down $7.50 a month for the Willow Glen franchise. We happen to have a bunch of Eichlers in one part of Willow Glen. They even have street signs celebrating their Eichlerdom. You could come along and sponsor “Willow Glen Eichlers” and then invite all those owners to join so that they can discuss heating and cooling tips. The heart of Willow Glen is Lincoln Avenue. The business owners on Lincoln Avenue have their own association. Barry could come along and sponsor “Willow Glen – Lincoln Avenue” and invite them to discuss avenue business. Now I’ve got the entire neighborhood of Willow Glen, minus all the Eichlers and Lincoln Avenue. Damn, I thought I was locking up the entire neighborhood.

Think I’m making this up? Read Jonathan’s latest blog. Here is an excerpt that caught my eye.

Question: How do you define a community?

Answer: We decided to leave this up to our members. My belief is that it will start with users only submitting large neighborhoods as communities, but over time the number of the communities will expand as people choose to submit individual buildings as communities. For example, I could see a school, church, office building, or apartment complex all receiving great benefit from keeping a community blog on Localism.

Question: We still need some more clarifications on sponsorship. In the city of Henderson, NV there are several master planned communities, and many of these have unique subdivisions within them. If one AR member sponsored the master plan, could others sponsor subdivisions within the master plan?

Answer: Each submitted community will be sponsorable. The two main requirements are that the community have a unique name and reside within the geo-graphical confines of a city. For example one person could sponsor “Queen Anne” Seattle, and someone else could create and sponsor “North Queen Anne” Seattle.

Before I’d buy, I’d want to know exactly what I was buying. “Leave that up to our members” doesn’t sound like a good plan for defining sponsorship areas.

Barry, I understand your perspective, but the success of Localism hinges a lot on search engine placement. I would not assume that to be a slam dunk.

The early juice AR enjoyed stemmed from the links they got from agents for a few measly points and was built upon by agents linking to their own posts. That won’t happen to anywhere near the degree. Right now, localism is being juiced by AR. That isn’t going to be enough for anything that you couldn’t get by default on your own.

Frank: Remind me never to go shopping with you!

Push a competitor’s area down in the SERPS and boost a subcommunity and the sponsor will quit paying. Localism will have their own foreclosure problem.

Bob..like I said…IMO…real estate is but a small part of what Localism will be and and even smaller part of the overall opportunity. Those focusing on it as a real estate website will be missing the proverbial boat.

When it gets open to the public and ANYONE can contribute..what exactly do you think will happen? I envision everyone from your local barber to your 5th grade teacher blogging and putting stories about there communities.

Here..do the math…if only 8% of all realtors are blogging based upon NAR stats and we all know that’s generous. That would mean there are about 120,000 agents blogging. Let’s take a modest distribution of dividing that thru 50 states and you come up up with 2,400 agents blogging PER STATE, well once you reduce that to local cities and communities you easily see that Localism is not going to be the realtors nirvana nor is it designed to be as such.

I see the opening up of Localism actually DWARFING real estate agents and agents actually being like they are now in real life. Agents aren’t the focus, they are just there if and when you need them.

Far more people are interested in the community than they are an agent or a house.

We had 500 people show up for a dog show here in Fort Lauderdale last weekend. All last month only 600 homes sold.

More people interested in the community than an agent…it’s those who know how or are willing to monetize it that will truly profit from Localism.

Are you ready?